Agenda item

The PCC has provided a report which was requested by the Panel to show TVP’s arrest data by ethnicity. It also includes stop and search, and a progress report on the Police Race Action Plan.

The Panel was provided with a report which showed TVP’s arrest data by ethnicity. The report also included information on stop and search, and progress made on the Police Race Action Plan.

The Chair of the Panel thanked Chief Superintendent Sarah Grahame, Superintendent James Hahn and DCI Quoc Vo for providing a detailed and excellent report.

The PCC reported that the report sets out a complex picture with a changing landscape. There were many scrutiny bodies which included community groups that looked at this data.

In response to a comment from a Panel Member, the PCC reported that this report did not specify about gender. The data provided for the report was on ethnicity and was on all genders. 

Members’ Questions

(1)  The PCC was asked whether there was any data on who victims identified as perpetrators of crimes and motivated stop and searches?

[The PCC commented that he understood the point being made. The data does not necessarily show for example, repeat stop and searches. Reference was made to policing during the period of covid restrictions, where data had been skewed by repeat offenders. There was a challenge of how to record these incidents. The Pronto app which officers used made it easier, however, it was acknowledged that the raw numbers may not show the reality.

Communities needed to be reassured over the disproportionate arrests and stop and searches of certain ethnicities, which sometimes depended upon the environment, for example, the night time economy where there were younger people and a mix of races, which was disproportionate to the population of an area.]

(2)  Reference was made to the governance alignment between the Race Action Plan and the legitimacy board, and the PCC was asked what the consequence was of not having that and what would be benefits be. In addition, in relation to stop and search, 88.3% were based on reasonable grounds, however that meant that there were around 1500 that did not have reasonable grounds. The PCC was asked whether this figure was disproportionate and whether there was data on ethnicity on these.

[The PCC replied that he would have to check if there was such data on whether there was ethnicity data on the 1500 incidents where there had not been reasonable grounds to stop and search. There was a requirement to record these, and it was about not recording, rather than not having grounds.

Regarding alignment, it was about not being distracted by other activities. There will be national measures which will be imposed on policing, which TVP will need to do. It was important to be aligned nationally but attempting to drive that national picture.]

(3)   Some of the work and recommendations are recent. The point was noted that there was disproportionate data in urban areas for example. The PCC was asked to come back to the Panel in a year’s time to look at the impact of some of the actions being taken such as the setting up of Board set up, in a years’ time, have something back, follow up to look at impact of these actions.

[The PCC said, subject to the Panel’s work programme, he would report back. The Boards would have to carry out work to assess.]

(4)   A Member made a general comment regarding systemic racism which existed in organisations, different ethnic propensities to going to prison, different motivations for reporting, the possibility of investigating more crimes if reported by white people, interpretation of behaviours and those crimes may be reported more, if there was a reasonable reason for arrest. The data was not good, and the Police needed to look at what was influencing stop and searches.

[The PCC replied that TVP is not systemic racist, although he acknowledged that the comment made was a general one. The stop and search data for TVP was good compared to other forces and he had not seen any data which suggested TVP investigated more crimes reported by white people.]  

(5)   The PCC was congratulated for TVP being an Icebreaker force for the National Race Action Plan and being Race Equality Matters Trailblazer. The PCC was asked to bring back regular progress reports on the improvements and progress made with the impact of these.

Reference was made to the composition of the Panel, which was mainly white, male and middle aged, with only one Member from a BAME community. The Panel had a duty to be a critical friend to the process and to acknowledge that systemic racism affected all agencies. Could the PCC provide information on how would the independent scrutiny and oversight board be formulated and how was he getting out to all communities to enable them to understand that he was taking this issue seriously and aiming to reduce this disproportionality in relation to arrests and stop and search?

[The PCC said he did not have details of the membership or terms of reference of the ISOP as it was an independent body, and they would decide on this. The PCC can update on this when the decisions have been made.

In terms of communication on recruitment, there was a positive engagement team made up of representatives from the BAME community and contact was made with individual community groups. During the Black Lives Matters protests, TVP engaged with communities and tried to recruit some individuals to take part in some of this work. Community scrutiny panels will be asked to participate and help the police to reach out.]

(6)   The PCC was asked if there was any data which proved that stop and search worked.

[The PCC said that stop and search was a valuable tool and generally had widespread public support. Stop and search was predominantly used for weapons and drugs and its purpose was to prevent criminality, particularly around the use of weapons such as knives. There was no way of knowing whether a crime was to be committed but it was a preventative measure.]

A Panel Member referred to the statistic which indicated that a black person in Thames Valley was four and a half times more likely to be arrested and it was important that an analysis take place on why this was happening and that there should be no complacency on this. Reference was also made to the investigations of crimes and the PCC commented that there was no evidence that some black crimes were not investigated.

RESOLVED – That the report and the information provided by the PCC be noted and an update report be submitted to a future Panel meeting.